53: Building a Strong Foundation: Nurturing a Marriage and a Business

See the show notes for this Episode here.

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Transcript:

Bonnie Christine: Hello, and welcome to this very special episode. Today I am joined by a special guest that I'm so excited to introduce to you. Please meet my husband, David.

David Forkner: Hey, everybody.

Bonnie Christine: David's making his debut on the podcast, and the reason why we're doing this is because right now, we are sitting in Utah on a very special trip. Do you want to tell everybody what we're doing this week?

David Forkner: Yes. We're spending a full week in the desert of Utah, and it is beautiful. The weather has been phenomenal. We've been a good week so far.

Bonnie Christine: And why are we doing it?

David Forkner: Because it's our 15 year anniversary.

Bonnie Christine: We are celebrating 15 years married, but actually 20 together, because we met and started dating in David's last year of high school. So we've been together for 20 years. And there are several things that we do that we've kind of recognized in our marriage that maybe everybody doesn't do. And we think that it's kind of been beneficial for our marriage and how close we are today and how good of a relationship we have today and how good of a relationship we have with our kids.

David Forkner: Yes.

David Forkner: So we are technically high school sweethearts. Bonnie and I dated my very last week of high school. She was a year behind me, which ever since then, it has been nothing but bliss.

Bonnie Christine: Nothing but bliss.

David Forkner: No. Yeah. We have been very blessed with 20 wonderful years together and a lot of good lessons learned. And so hopefully, we can share some of those with anyone who is interested in listening.

Bonnie Christine: So today we're going to share with you eight things we've identified, eight different things that we really do and talk about often and practice in our marriage, and then two things that we are currently working on, because, as you know, every marriage is not perfect. I don't think any marriage is perfect. And at the end of today's episode, we have some very special questions submitted by you, our listeners, that David is going to answer. And so we're just going to dive right on in. The first one that David and I are passionate about are touch points. So we like to be very intentional about having a couple of touch points with each other every day. And these are really things that we consider to just be like our common denominator things that we do that we have in common with each other, because I think it's really easy for people, as you grow in your relationship, to just kind of live in different worlds. And so we're intentional about having a couple of things that we do together. So for us, it's a workout in the morning and usually a TV show in the evening. Which one do you want to talk about?

David Forkner: Yeah. So we haven't always had these two things in common. I haven't certainly noticed that since we started going to the same gym and now even the same time slot that we work out every day together. It's made a huge difference in kind of our camaraderie as dreading the workout, talking about how horrible the workout was, kind of the talking about it, the.

Bonnie Christine: Like, what are we going to do the next day?

David Forkner: Commiserate together been great for our relationship as a whole. And the TV show thing, it has kind of given us common ground between our two different worlds that we live in during the day. Those are both good touch points, if you will, that we get to share in common. And they also happen to be the workout at the beginning of the day and the TV show at the end of the day. So the spacing is good too.

Bonnie Christine: And I think the point here is that it doesn't have to be these two things. It could be anything, but it's intentional. So if you like to read books, maybe you and your husband read the same book together, anything like maybe you take a walk together or something. But that commonality. Those common interests have been a game changer for us. And yeah, we haven't always watched TV, but now we do one episode a night. Just one. Let's be careful not to stay up late because we prioritize sleep as well. So we'd watch one episode a night. And in the last year and a half we've gone through several shows. We've finished outlander, we've done

David Forkner: Game of Thrones, I'm surprised that Bonnie made it through.

Bonnie Christine: We've done. Peaky Blinders, Yellowstone 1923. So many. And it's so fun to talk about them during the day. So find something that you can just intentionally use as a common touch point between each other.

David Forkner: Yes, and don't force one another to watch something they don't want to watch. We both have shows that we would love to watch because we don't watch a lot of TV.

Bonnie Christine: Yes. We have our own shows that we would never make each other watch. Which brings me to our second one, which is to just show interest, genuine interest in each other's worlds. And so I actually think the most romantic thing that David could ever do is ask me about the book I'm reading and ask me about what's going on. He'll listen to me talk about the emails that are going out or what's happening with the podcast, or what's happening with our team, or the fabric collection that I'm designing. And similarly, I reciprocate that. And again, this is not something that comes supernatural for me. I don't know if it does for you, but I have to really stop and intentionally dive into his world because even though the thing that you're asking about may not be of interest to you, the person is of interest to you. Right. And so anything that you're interested in, David, I want to know about. I want to be a part of your world, genuinely. So how does that play out for you?

David Forkner: Right, so again, we have sort of different worlds that we find ourselves in. Taking the time to hear the other person's day, how it went, why they did some of the things that they did, why they enjoy doing some of the things that they enjoy doing. For me, it's like if I go fishing or something, bonnie will ask me intentionally how it went. You're here about the day, even though I know that she doesn't really care too much about how many fish I caught or didn't catch or whatever it may be.

Bonnie Christine: Okay, so the next one is something that actually heard a long time ago and so long ago that I can't even cite the study. But I remember the study that came out around happy marriages that had been married for 50 plus years, and they were asking them, like, what's the key? If you could say one thing, what would it come down to for the key to a long, happy marriage? And the common denominator was respect. And so I loved this so much because I think that we've always respected each other. But since we kind of learned about that study, we've been a little bit more intentional about what that looks like. And I think that at the end of the day, as long as you have a full heart of respect for each other, you can absolutely navigate anything. You can discuss anything, you can disagree about something if you need to, but that respect is always there, and that has been really meaningful for us.

David Forkner: Yeah, I think that respect is more subtle than most people realize, and especially if you think about marriage as such a long investment.

Bonnie Christine: So, David, what does this look like actually, in our day to day? Like, what would be an example of how we truly respect each other?

David Forkner: Yeah. So one thing that we're very intentional with is not talking negatively about each other when we're apart. So a lot of guys and girls the same when they get together, it's light hearted, seemingly light hearted. They rag on each other's husbands and kind of make jokes and make light of some of their things that they do, flaws, maybe in reality that's belittling them. And I don't think that that's something that's very healthy in the long run. Those little jabs here and there come back, and they also internalize that when you're saying something negative about your partner that stays with you. So that kind of maintains that idea that this person does that, and all of a sudden, that can grow into something that isn't necessarily there. But the respect part is also just making sure that other people recognize that you respect your spouse enough not to engage in those kinds of conversations.

Bonnie Christine: You will truly never catch me or David talking bad about each other, behind each other's back to anyone, and so much so that you actually won't find us hanging out with anybody else who does. But we're going to come back to that in a little bit. But I think that something that we could talk about here is I know that there are people out there that just feel like maybe their partner hasn't earned the respect. Maybe they don't trust who they're with or are struggling with even having respect based on the decisions that are made. And something else that I learned a long time ago was that oftentimes when you want to see a change, you almost have to start acting like the change has already happened in order for that person to feel like there's been space made to step into that new role. And so oftentimes it can kind of be like, well, who's going to take the first step? And maybe if you start showing more respect, they can start earning more respect because it does come down to you earning it. Because I trust you. You've built trust over the years. I trust that you're well researched and the decisions that you make. We don't have to ask each other permission for a lot of things because we just respect and trust each other so much. But that's been built over many years.

David Forkner: I've heard it said many times that you cannot change someone else, you can only change yourself. And I think that that's what they mean by that, is that you can help that person to change by starting to trust them. It sounds a little backwards, but basically opening that space, like you said, for them to move into accepting that everyone is going to make mistakes, but they're not defined by those mistakes.

Bonnie Christine: Okay, the next one I've kind of titled Parent as One. So David and I have two smallish kids. They're nine and seven. And so this one we have kind of learned the hard way, meaning there's been a couple of times where let's say this goes either way, but let's say David has given some instruction to the kids and I disagree with it and I disagree with it in front of David to the kids. Right. I know none of you would ever do that, but it's happened the other reverse way as well. And we slowly just realized this is not a good message to send to the children. And also it's really disrespectful to undermine what each other has said in the moment. So at this like today, we always kind of step aside and discuss it. We discuss it behind closed doors and we come to a one decision together that we present to the kids. And I think that this has been really important so the kids don't feel like we're ever divided, that we parent as one, and they're not going to get a different answer from you or me if they come to us separately, that we really move through those decisions together.

David Forkner: Right. I think that the few times that we have disagreed in front of the kids or one of us has corrected or kind of tried to overrule the.

Bonnie Christine: Other or just have like a different idea.

David Forkner: It's been the number one thing that you and I try to do always, is if we do disagree, we have enough respect for the other to wait to discuss it without the kids being present.

Bonnie Christine: Would you say that there's like a look? There's like a look?

David Forkner: I flex my jaw. That's my science.

Bonnie Christine: I give you the look. Like, here, come outside with me for a second, we'll go discuss. Maybe oftentimes it's just little things as well. But again, we never want to disagree with something the other person has put into motion in front of the children because that just makes us look divided as a parent. So that one has been really great. Okay, next are a couple of books that we have two we have two books that have sort of been into personal development and then also a side effect of that has been an incredible marriage boost for us. So the first one really is marriage based. We did this before we got married. And it's the love languages. I'm sure you've heard about the Love Languages. My love language is quality time, and your love language is words of affirmation and acts of service. And so if you're not familiar with this book, the concept is that there are five Love Languages and not everyone speaks the same one. So an easy example of this is, let's say David's up being busy cleaning the kitchen and wishing that I would come help him. And I'm sitting on the couch wishing David would come have quality time with me. And so just because we receive love in a particular way doesn't mean that we always like, the other person receives it in the same way that we like to. And so the book really frames up like, this can oftentimes be just as difficult as learning, like, a legitimate second language to learn how to communicate the love in the way that you want to receive it. And I want to receive it. This has been huge.

David Forkner: If you don't know your love language, you can try to think of the thing you do for your spouse most frequently. And I think that that is what ends up being your personal love language. So I busy myself by cleaning or I'm the dishwashing master duffel around the kitchen and I'll catch myself doing it, thinking that I'm doing something that really means a lot to her. But really, it's what I value most, when really, she would just rather me come sit on the couch and hang out and maybe ask her about a day or something like that.

Bonnie Christine: The side effect to this book, too, is that it really helped us in our relationship with our kids and with our parents because everyone kind of receives love in a different way.

David Forkner: The second book, another just great tool to learn more about what makes people feel valued and feel good and receive love is the enneagram understand what makes another person tick.

Bonnie Christine: We love the Enneagram, and we're a bit passionate about a particular book, meaning you can't just go online and take the quiz. You cannot just go online and take a quiz. You have to really understand not only your number and what it means about you and your own personality and how you receive achievement, but all of the other numbers as well. And so I'm an Enneagram three, I'm an Enneagram Seven, and there is so much before the enneagram that maybe we just didn't really understand about each other. And afterwards, everything like, we're kind of quintessential threes and sevens, like textbook almost. And so much has opened up for us about how we move through the day. And so the book that we love is called the Road Back to you by Ian Cron. And so we'll link all of this up in the show notes for today's episode. But this book goes through every single number, and you will likely know someone in every number. So I can't tell you how this has transformed my relationship with my sister and my mom and David's mom and my friends, the people on my team. It translates into business as well. And so part of what we love about it is that it shows really what you look like in health and unhealth and also in stress. And so there are just signs that kind of pop up for each other when maybe we're stressed out or something that we're aware of now and we can come to talk about it more quickly.

David Forkner: It helps you understand maybe the motives behind other people's actions.

Bonnie Christine: What's one thing that you learned about me as a three that was surprising or unfolded for you in some way?

David Forkner: Tell them what the three?

Bonnie Christine: The three is the achiever.

David Forkner: The achiever. Right. Actually, there are some fun little catchphrases that assign to the different numbers that are easier for me to remember than the rest of it. So for Bonnie, out of three, the only thing more fun than fun is work. Yes. It's not because she's stressed out or because she's worried about it. It's just because that's what she enjoys doing.

Bonnie Christine: That's fun. The other one that I think about that was a revelation for me was that threes don't like to be slowed down. Yes. So this opened up so much for you about why I do certain things.

David Forkner: Yeah, anything that will slow it down. The refrigerator in the room has a key in it, and Bonnie's like, why does this refrigerator have a key? It takes so long to open.

David Forkner: It really doesn't take long.

David Forkner: It doesn't take that long to open. You just have to turn the key and open it. But it's half of a millisecond slower than just opening the fridge. She does not like that.

Bonnie Christine: So seven for me.

David Forkner: I am a planner. I like to always be planning ahead. Even when we're doing something that I've already planned, I'll be planning my next adventure. And anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Bonnie Christine: As a seven, they're always thinking about what's next. And so one of the challenges that you have is being really present in the moment and soaking in what it is today, which I feel like you kind of realize that through the enneagram and have consistently worked to overcome it.

David Forkner: Right. So I think one of the biggest things for me I've learned from that is because I recognize that tendency in sevens, I now force myself and I'm very aware of being in the moment. I think I'm much more present than even most normal people now because of that, and because I want to, as a seven, make the most out of every situation. I want to have the most fun possible. I am now like the most present possible. I've deleted most of the social media off my phone so that I'm not just mindlessly scrolling. And I do other things to try to make myself be more present and enjoy the trips that I do plan.

Bonnie Christine: Yeah, so we highly recommend that one for all aspects of life and business and family and marriage and teams and friends. Okay, the next one we want to talk about is number six. And this is about priorities. So we learned this a long, long time ago, the importance of putting God first, each other, so your spouse second and your kids third. And I see this one get mixed up all the time. So for us, it's God first, because we know that we have to be full human beings on our own before we can fully fulfill each other, whatever that is for you. For us, it's the Lord first. Then second is always prioritized each other, and then our kids are prioritized to third. And that means that we have a relationship outside of just our children. And that's really important. We see this kind of get flip flopped so many times and then the kids grow up and move off and then the marriage. There's not a lot of sustenance left there. And so what would you say about that? And what's an example of how we prioritize each other?

David Forkner: I mean, first and foremost, God calls us to love others more than ourselves. And the love that we have for each other should be that same type of love, which is sacrificial, meaning put the other person first. And then our kids see that relationship that we have and our devotion to one another, and I think they have learned to model that.

Bonnie Christine: I think sometimes you might feel like kids would rather feel like they were put first, but truly, the only thing that children really want is parents who love each other, parents who have a great relationship with each other. And so one of the things that how we play this out is that we typically don't let the kids interrupt us. If we are having a conversation, it's typical that the kids will try to interrupt and we'll say something like, let me finish talking to dad first, and then we'll come. Or everybody comes home and David will come and hug me first. We prioritize just each other just before the kids and the kids really get to see a beautiful relationship because of it.

David Forkner: Right? I do think the kids are better off and our relationship with the kids are better off in the long run because of that, but also from a purely practical standpoint. And the first time I heard this, it was kind of hard to grasp. But our kids only with us for 18 years, and then we're left with each other.

Bonnie Christine: Which is why we're on this trip this week. We don't get to do very often. But even if you can't take an entire week, we try to take a night at least once a month. We try to just take one night away. We'll go to a town an hour away or something and just prioritize time together. Okay. The next one is something else that we learned a long time ago. And I think that it's probably been one of the most beneficial things to our entire marriage. We're calling it the line. And probably ten plus years ago, and they were talking about how it's very rare when someone just accidentally has an affair. Like they weren't thinking about it or.

Bonnie Christine: Planning on it, and all of a sudden they were having an affair. That's typically not what happens. More likely is that there was a line that was crossed early, early on that seemed innocent, and then after that, it was just one little tiny step in front of another. And so it called us to really talk about, like, well, what is that line? If you go back all the way to the very first line that should have never been crossed, what is it and what does it look like? And so what's okay and what's not okay? And so we are really strict about this with ourselves. So, for instance, we would never go to lunch or dinner with another person of the opposite sex, even if it was business or any number of circumstances that would seemingly be okay, even mutual.

David Forkner: Friends or anything like that.

Bonnie Christine: And I don't think, like one on one, obviously we go out as couples, but just one person and one person, it would never happen. Like, here's the thing. If you don't want a normal marriage, you have to be a little weird. Like, you have to do things that aren't necessarily normal.

David Forkner: Normal is divorce.

Bonnie Christine: Now, normal today is typically not really what you want. We want excellent. And so, yeah, there's a whole host of things. Like we don't marco Polo, just one person of the opposite sex. We don't text. Like, if we're texting someone, if you have to text one of my friends. You always loop me in on the thread. So it's three people on the thread, and I do the same with you. There are so many things that if you think about just that very first line that feels completely okay, feels completely innocent, but you never want to cross even the initial line that could lead to the next line.

David Forkner: Any division in the marriage, I think, that allows for secrets or potential misunderstandings.

Bonnie Christine: Well, because when you become married, you become one. And so really, you don't function as two anymore. You have to come together and function as one. The last one, number eight, is that we are really intentional about hanging out with other people who have great marriages. And we've also kind of separated ourselves from a couple of marriages that weren't really good examples of where we wanted to go. So we're always looking for circles of people who inspire us to be better versions of ourselves, inspire our marriage to be better. And what do you want to say about that?

David Forkner: Right. So going back to my tendency to plan and I like to invite everyone to everything always in that we've had a few couples that we've decided that just really aren't the best influences on us, their parenting styles on our children. And so we've been very intentional to our own sometimes loneliness that we won't necessarily hang out with just anyone.

Bonnie Christine: There's a concept, right, that you are the average of your five closest friends. And whether that's actually true or not, the concept, I think, is really important. If you want to be a certain way, then you hang out with people who are a certain way. If you are hanging out with people who are not healthy, they don't have good relationships, and they're not moving forward in their business, like, maybe you want to you need to find a different group of people who are doing all those things that you aspire to do. And the same with our marriage. We love spending time with marriages that are just inspiring and they're fun to be around and they have a great relationship, and that just gives us such a great example to follow as well. And then two things, I'm sure there's many more that we're working on. Number one is greetings. I think that it's so easy for me and you to kind of just take our coming and going a little bit for granted. And so I've been trying to be more intentional about just delighting in the moment you walk into a room, the moment you come home at the end of the day when we see each other, or the moment that we see each other first thing in the morning, is just to delight in that moment and be happy that we saw each other.

David Forkner: Right. I will take the majority of the blame on this one. I think that my greetings are poor at best. So yeah, I think you're right. I mean, we take for granted I heard it once, the way you greet someone at the door that you don't know is often 100 times more pleasant than you greet your spouse when they come home. You know what I mean? So if you answer the door and it was a stranger perk up and say, hey, man, how you doing?

David Forkner: Whether you're that happy before you open the door or not. And we should do it even if we're not just bubbling over with joy when the other person walks in the room, they deserve your best.

Bonnie Christine: And I think it's just one of those easy things to forget about, because with each other all the time for so many years and you just maybe forget. But it's the little things, the little habits that we create that really build over the long term. And then the last one, this is number ten. But the second thing that we're working on, I think we're all working on this like humanity is being present. Being present in the moment, having a practice of putting our phone face down during dinner, not checking it. But specifically when someone is speaking to each other, being fully present and not being on a device or multitasking or whatever. And so we're getting better at this. We're getting better at this. But it's something that we're still very much intentionally trying to, like, we've given each other permission to be like, come back to me or lean in and really focus on what we're talking about here.

David Forkner: Yeah. And I think you can help the other person by maybe setting some greed upon ahead of time standards. Don't just snatch the other person's phone.

Bonnie Christine: Oh, no, that would be a bad idea.

David Forkner: That's the wrong way to go about it.

Bonnie Christine: But that is a wrap. Those are our ten things. I hope that whether you are married or single or dating or any of the above, that you can take at least one of these things into your relationship or your next relationship or the relationship that you have with your children or your parents or your friends. It's all about intention. I think it's being really thoughtful about your relationships.

David Forkner: Yeah, I mean, I think that probably the biggest theme with all this is intentionality in everything we do, whether it's your job or your relationship. And so neither can survive or thrive without it.

Bonnie Christine: So as a recap, the eight different Things that we do that we talked. About today are touch points, showing interest, maintaining respect, parenting as one, a couple of books that we mentioned prioritizing each other, talking about the line and hanging out, spending time with other people who make us better. And then the two things that we're working on are our greetings and being. Present with each other. David, it's time to answer some questions that have been submitted. I have not told. You any of these, but on my stories this week, I asked people if they wanted to ask you a question. Are you up for it?

David Forkner: Oh, boy. Yes.

Bonnie Christine:

Okay.

Bonnie Christine: The first one is, is David a part of your team? Does he have a role Bonnie Christine?

David Forkner: No, I don't. It's something that we discussed early on, definitely. It's nice to have understanding as to what's going on in her business. We share things like that, but no, I don't work in it and don't plant it.

Bonnie Christine : Are you plant based like Bonnie?

David Forkner: I am, yes.

Bonnie Christine :And what you might like to know is that it was all his idea.

David Forkner: To begin with, probably 15 plus years ago, before we even got married.

Bonnie Christine: Yeah.

Bonnie Christine: So being plant based for us is all about health. We made the decision out of a health based decision. And there was one book in particular that really kind of did it for us, and it's called The China Study. So if you're interested in learning about plant based as it relates to disease and long term health, we'll link that book up in the replay in the show notes. What's been your favorite thing about watching Bonnie grow as an entrepreneur?

David Forkner: It's a very good question. Yeah. So she's certainly gone from hobbyists in her blog career, which was prefabric design, to a true professional, I think everyone would agree. And so that's been it. I mean, she's completely self taught, and I'll tell anyone anytime that she did everything herself for sure bootstrapped it. And yeah. So seeing her go from knowing nothing to learning and figuring it all out herself to teaching it to others has been my favorite.

Bonnie Christine: Okay, here's a great follow up question. Were you ever doubtful that Bonnie would make it? Initial thoughts and feelings, please. This will be for my hubby's benefit.

David Forkner: Doubtful. No.

Bonnie Christine: We never knew, but we didn't get to where it is.

David Forkner: I had no idea what a fabric designer was. I had no idea what surface pattern design was. And so, yeah, I thought for sure that it was at the time when she first started, just another maybe hobby or side hustle, and certainly had no clue it would take us this far, but doubt was never in the picture.

Bonnie Christine: Are you the fun dad or the strict one?

David Forkner: Oh, gosh, I'm probably the strict one.

Bonnie Christine: I think you're just an even mix of both. You definitely train the kids and then you also just have so much fun with them. Did you ever think you'd be on a podcast episode?

David Forkner: Definitely not.

Bonnie Christine: This is his debut. Okay, great question. So what does a day in the life of David look like?

David Forkner: Okay, typically I get up about six. I do my devotion. Coffee is always involved. Coffee and breakfast. I'm a big breakfast guy. Then the kids will wake up a little after seven, get the kids ready for school. I take the kids to the bus by 08:00. A.m. And then I go to the gym, spend the morning at the gym. Then I go usually to the office where I do a number of things real estate related, which are pretty boring. I always tell people boring stuff at the office.

Bonnie Christine: David also does all of the things that are just really not fun, honestly. He takes care of all of the paperwork, all of the bills, all of the kind of accounting, all of the appointments. He really kind of sweeps up all of the managerial stuff, paying small bills.

David Forkner: Here and there, writing checks, checking on things, getting things fixed are my day to day tasks in the office. And then I'll pick up the kids from school, about 330 each day, and then shuttle or drive them to after school activities, things like that.

Bonnie Christine: So David coaches soccer. I coach soccer, basketball.

David Forkner: But we have a pretty chill evening, so we're home by six most nights if we don't have sports.

Bonnie Christine: What is your favorite thing to cook? Or does Bonnie let you?

David Forkner: Bonnie would definitely let me that my skills are better used elsewhere. I do however, or can bake, which.

Bonnie Christine: I think is hilarious, born out of.

David Forkner: Necessity because I do like sweets. Bonnie doesn't like to bake, which is very funny because she is an excellent cook and cooks a scratch, made dinner most nights, but does not like to bake.

Bonnie Christine: Okay, so this person clearly knows that you used to be a professional cyclist. And so the question is, how would you break in a six year old that doesn't want to learn how to ride a bike because it hurts his bottom?

David Forkner: Well, that particular issue is those have to get a better seat or maybe cycling pants. But I was ironically one of the last kids in my neighborhood to learn how to ride a bike without training wheels and then ironically became professional cyclists. So don't give up on me. Still young.

Bonnie Christine: Has David created at least one repeating pattern?

David Forkner: No. And I do like to doodle or draw a little bit cartoon, primarily, and Bonnie's tried to get me to do a repeating pattern in the past, but not yet. Never say never, but not yet.

Bonnie Christine:Do you still coach cycling?

David Forkner: No, I don't. I did that for about eleven years, and I really enjoyed my time working with people from all over the world and training guys and traveling. But since the last probably six years, I have not done that. And yeah, it's just a chapter of my life that's gone by.

Bonnie Christine: What would you say to other husbands who don't think creative careers can be lucrative?

David Forkner: There seem to be a lot of naysayers out there, at least in the husband department. I would definitely tell them is room for their wife, there's plenty of money to be made and space in the industry.

Bonnie Christine: Okay, this is the last one. What did you need from Bonnie to believe that she was in fact making progress on her goals. This is early on. I would say in the very beginning.

David Forkner: I mean, her consistency working on learning Adobe and consuming every bit of information that she could get her hands on early on was testament that she was serious about it. She was pretty well determined from day one, even though I had no idea what she was determined what she was actually working on.

Bonnie Christine: Good job. Good job. You're done in the hot seat. We have to get back to our anniversary trip. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of The Professional Creative. You can get show notes for today's episode and all other [email protected]. Do you know how I sign off?

David Forkner: Sure, but I can't quote it.

Bonnie Christine: Don't quote me. Friends, create the beauty that you want to see come alive in the world. And remember, there's room for you. Bye for now.